A change I think ghosters may need.

[Mad_Gerbil]

First I'd like to see the thieves have to buy the blackjack and/or bow at a cost of 250gp each. Obviously the default loot for thieves would have to go up, but this would also give ghosters the opportunity to buy other things since they are choosing to handicap themselves with no BJ.

Second, I'd like to see enhanced lockpicks that make MUCH LESS sound when picking doors at a cost of 200gp each. I think picking mines should still be noisy. Why? Because I've carefully ghosted into the middle of a great area but couldn't pick a door because it would alert every guard in the building to my presence. Maybe if you don't own a bj your lockpicks are automatically quieter or something.

[Kiech Bepho]

Hmm, I agree with you that the lockpicks are a bit noisy. I was looking at the file to change the sound around, and I think it is something that can be changed fairly easily.

The 250 loot BJ? Sounds kinda pricey for a small baton. Maybe it would work out OK. I am worried that it will give thieves more of a reason to buy a sword though. This I don't know how to change yet. It might be something the devs will have to work on. I would like to know why they picked what they did for a 'basic' loadout instead of making the player buy everything.

Kiech

[The_Dan]

Nice ideas all round

I think the enhanced lockpick idea needs tweaking it slightly but it has potential.

Perhaps, you could buy a theoretical item (eg. you pay for a few weeks worth of training) that gives you a general boost in all areas:
-quieter lockpicks & footsteps
-slight speed boost
-5% less visibility

Hmm, that seems a bit unblanced but you get my general idea.

[Kiech Bepho]

It's TH-Door that makes the sounds, and it doesn't care what kind of picks you are using, so 'better' lockpicks doesn't seem like an option. Different sounds for different doors, thats possible.

Kiech

[Stakhanov]

Here's an alternative solution :
while the BJ is too basic to be expensive , I thought of something else perhaps replacing both the BJ and the sword : the Combat Baton. :| (for lack of a better name)
Would cost 100-160 banked loot , and not only KO guards (from the 90° back heh :wink but also block attacks like the sword does for now (would look more realistic , a thief could never have the strenght to block a mace with one hand)
Frontal attacks would cause slight (but justified !) damage , and stun the guard if charged. To balance this it would give a +10% visibility (like the bow) so that the thieves have to stay crouched if they don't want to be spotted with it. (can't charge up the baton while crouched perhaps)

[LaughingRat]

I don't think the bow whould have to be purchased. Even ghosters have use for it as a tool, and it compares to the guard's crossbow as a free part of a loadout.

Not having the blackjack as a free item in the loadout is an idea that has been suggested before, and it's not a bad one. I don't think it's worth 250, though, and I don't think you'd want to see the number of people who would simply trade it for a sword with some of the changes coming in 1.3 anyway.

Enhanced lockpicks, maybe, but I don't think they're worth 200, unless they're both completely silent, and faster.

[Kiech Bepho]

Enhanced lockpicks, maybe, but I don't think they're worth 200, unless they're both completely silent, and faster.

Mutate the door to identify expert lockpicks then play no sound...maybe it can be done.

I would stop this idea at the point of no sound for the expert lockpicks though. I wouldn't want to NOT be able to pick a lock because I didn't buy the better lockpicks.

Kiech

[WildBill]

The bow should not be optional, it would just add the time it takes to buy it each round. No sane thief would be without one. I'm all for the blackjack being a buy option, though. I'd place is at 200GP (As Gerb is always quick to point out, it's a one hit kill weapon), and raise the default thief starting loot to 800GP.

I do agree that lockpicks need to be changed, but I'm not sure how. Perhaps thieves should be able to pick locks more slowly to make less noise, or pick it faster and create more noise? I'm not sure how that would be implement, just tossing out ideas.

And while we're on the subject, doors need to be changed. It's absurd that a thief can't open a door quietly. One idea suggested was allow them to open it slowly, or only partly, and have it make les snoise. If need be, perhaps they could buy a can of grease they could use on doors to make them quieter?

[LegalAssassin]

If need be, perhaps they could buy a can of grease they could use on doors to make them quieter?

[Omega]

I really don't get it why ghosting thieves need all that equipment.
Just gimme some water arrows

[Lurox]

Tell me why I should buy water arrows as a thief, man.

1 - They automatically tell a guard that you've been there.

2 - They cost something.

I prefer mah sneakin' skills!

[Yenzarill]

1 - They automatically tell a guard that you've been there.

EXACTLY. Best. Diverson.

[LaughingRat]

Tell me why I should buy water arrows as a thief, man.

Like Yenz, I've used water arrows to put out a torch in a direction I have no intention of going. Keeps the guards busy over there while I get where I need to be.

[SNAFU]

I really don't get it why ghosting thieves need all that equipment.
Just gimme some water arrows

How the HELL do you manage to ghost?

[Omega]

Most people don't even know what ghosting is.

Ghosting is not about not KO'ing, it's more then that.