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  • Make Mines Useful

    I've seen thieves hit them and just keep on running.
    What is the point?

    They should be one shot kills.
    "A gerbil is a rodent, wretched creature and quite possibly represents yourself there unclean vile obsolete weak and live happily in there and others filth, they have caused plague and death to humans and nearly wiped us out" - industrialism

  • #2
    Make them one-shot kills, and let guards detonate them again.
    =) =) =)
    Ok, one shot-kills for thieves, but two shots for guards. I'd be a very happy camper.
    ~Occam

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    • #3
      I don't know if they should be one-shot kills, but they should do a lot more damage than they do - TO THIEVES.

      To guards, the damage should remain unchanged - guards supposedly have armor to protect from the shrapnel/blast.

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      • #4
        One shot kill is too much. They are not bad for an item that costs 50, though. You just can't rely on them to do the killing for you. They are more a disuading tool (put them below vents, for example).
        To me, mines are nothing else than oversized caltrops. They warn you with noise if the thief steps on them, damage them some bit and if they disappear or are re-set, you know someone has been there. If anything, thehy could meld a little bit more with the background.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Mr.K.
          One shot kill is too much. They are not bad for an item that costs 50, though. You just can't rely on them to do the killing for you. They are more a disuading tool (put them below vents, for example).
          To me, mines are nothing else than oversized caltrops. They warn you with noise if the thief steps on them, damage them some bit and if they disappear or are re-set, you know someone has been there. If anything, thehy could meld a little bit more with the background.
          They need more punch. It should at least almost kill a thief. Perhaps a full health thief, minus damage done by 1 bolt (What is that? 100-25=75 or am I wrong?)

          Otherwise, they're merely a disuading tool. Not a real trap...
          TCO – Retired
          Former TCO Head of Intelligence – Retired

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          • #6
            I think two mines will generally kill. Makes thier use on maps that have spares, like DE and Aquatone. Also makes it take twice as long to get past them, since both have to be picked separately.

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            • #7
              I'm judging mines compared to other damaging items. A fire bolt costs twice as much and is nowhere close to killing a thief. How much damage does a mine do? I think it's a little more than what a healing potion can cure.
              Still, i think that killing or almost killing a thief for only 50 is too cheap. Problem would be worse when camping objectives and placing mines in the entrances. You can't defuse them because guards would see you, and you can't probably jump over them, throw 3 crates away, pick up the item, jump back and run away before getting toasted by three guards. You'd have to go in and swallow the mine, hoping that it blows off the crates and in the confusion you can grab the objective and run. Still a tough achievement that hardly ever has a result, but it's worth trying. If mines killed or almost did, camping would be even more unbeatable than what it already is (if properly executed).

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              • #8
                Mr.K is right. let's make firebolts 50 and mines 100. this way everything is valued according to power. and if by some side-effect i get 10 firebolts per spawn, so be it.


                what? stop staring at me like that.

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                • #9
                  Napalm Mine
                  Someone suggested the napalm mine, I kinda liked that idea... a mine that produces the firebolt explosion when it detonates. Just make sure the thieves don't get 'em and put em near your claymores (See below).

                  Damage: Explosion 20 damage (3 feet), everyone caught in blast radius catches on fire (radius of 7 feet)
                  Appearance: Dark Red with a yellow outline.
                  Cost: 50 banked loot
                  Max. Carryable amount: 6
                  Lockpick time: 5 seconds

                  (Would be a worthy addition to the trappers arsenal, could be a grand combo in conjunction with a claymore (seven feet fire radius sets of the seven feet claymore blast radius), but when thieves get a hold of them, you should really stay clear of your own claymores...)

                  Regular Mine
                  As for the current mine, it shouldn't do more damage, but it should be more trap'ish instead... to produce this effect, mines should have a degree of invisibility somewhat similar to thieves.

                  Damage: Explosion 45 damage (radius of 3 feet)
                  Appearance:
                  Full light: 50% visible
                  Darkness: Similar as thief, but never going over 50% visibility or under 10% visibility.
                  Cost: 50 loot
                  Max. carryable amount: 6
                  Lockpick time: 7 seconds
                  (lockpick time is similar to as it is now, or at least it should be (my figures can be wrong). Damage is upped a bit, so two mines and some caltrops can kill a minesweeping thief. The camo effect should be awesome... and I'm kinda stuck on the point if guards should also be able to set these off (balancing the boosts I'd give it).

                  Claymore mine
                  The mine of mines, this one is the oneshot, onekill mine every guard worships on a sunday afternoon. It is larger than the regular mine and produces a pulsing mechanical sound somewhat similar to a watcher, although a little more silent. It also is very vulnerable to fire, and exposing it to any fire for more than a few seconds will detonate the mine (flares will generally heat up the mine in a similar way as torches (smokepuffs... BOOM) when dropped on them... firebolts or napalm mines will instantly detonate the mine).

                  Damage: Explosion 125 (!) damage (radius of 7 feet)
                  Appearance: Similar to the regular mine, but not invis. and 1.5x as large.
                  Cost: 100 banked loot
                  Max. Carryable amount: 2
                  Lockpick time: 15 seconds (no way, bring flares instead )
                  (I'd really like to see this mine introduced in thievery... it would end the doorhugging firespamming guard scenario and it would also give the guards a onehit kill weapon (that can potentially kill them too ). Just don't use them in small area's such as some korman rooms, for obvious reasons... also remove any flares dropped on it as soon as possible, or run like hell! Thieves should be able to buy flares for 30 banked loot per piece, giving them three chances to detonate the mine.
                  As a last note: When guards remove the flare, the mines heat detonation is reset, unlike flares that can burst in to flames when they've had previous exposion to fire, but multiple flares will detonate the mine faster.
                  )

                  Repairing Mines:
                  The repair tool repairs all mines that have been picked by thieves, the repaired mine will not go into their inventory, but rather a 'clank' sound will be played when the mine is repaired, and they will stay where they were dropped.
                  Repair time is similar to the lockpick time for that type of mine, and mines that allready belong to a guard cannot be repaired.

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                  • #10
                    Th-Airship (my latest map) offers guards crack mines to make up for the lack of firebolts (before you ask, think - would YOU equip guards with firebolts near a huge bag of hydrogen?). The basic premise is the same as the napalm mines - mines that explode with the effect of a crack arrow. Should be fun to use on thieves for a change, eh guards?
                    Mordengaard - Tester/Mapper/Voice Actor/Nitpick/Coder

                    "Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation."
                    :: Howard Scott

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                    • #11
                      Love the idea, Mord.

                      Tough when placed in doorways, they would be quite bad, because it leaves a green smoke, and if the guards try to go to the other side and slash the thief, they'll eventually get cracked.
                      JM

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                      • #12
                        Making a mathematical extrapolation:

                        IF:
                        guards+vents+crack+arrows=dead guards

                        THEN:
                        thieves+tight places+crack mine+bolts=dead thieves

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                        • #13
                          The claymore mine should be ~200 loot.

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                          • #14
                            Wouldn't a paralysation mine be better than a crack mine for guards?
                            (AKA Dresden)
                            Despite all my rage, I am still just a dwarf in a cage.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by -=V12US=-
                              exposing it to any fire for more than a few seconds will detonate the mine (flares will generally heat up the mine in a similar way as torches (smokepuffs... BOOM) when dropped on them...
                              Wow, I would really like to see this implemented for regular mines. It would give thieves incentive to buy flares...
                              ~Occam

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