Thief speed bonus in darkness

[Tieom]

Basically, when the lightgem is pure black (invisible thief) the thief gets a bonus to speed. Somewhere along the lines of crouching -> creeping, creeping -> running, running -> 1/2 between running and speed pot.

The upsides -
Thieves will swim faster than guards in most areas.
Puts control of dark areas even more into thieves hands.
Makes dark areas more of a safe haven to flee to.
Puts more value on tags.
Reduces shadowslashing ability.

The downsides -
Invis now confers speed bonus.
Puts more value on firebolts.

Those are the only ones I can think of at the moment.

[Kiech Bepho]

I like the part about swimming faster. All the rest is sketchy to me, I don't know why someone would run faster in the dark when a guard is chasing him.

So to amend, I think a thief should swim, climb, run, mantle faster than a guard does, regardless of light. After all, that big lug is wearing armor!

Kiech

[BiG_D]

I'm not sure that thieves should run faster in the dark, but the guards should probably run slower. We can assume that these thieves have better eyes than the guards, and would most likely be able to see where they are going in darkness. The guards, on the other hand, would probably stumble around in the dark.

[ToTT]

I personally, think that would be a bad idea... it would encourage thieves to bj dm maps in the dark (which is done plenty already). The swimming... ok that makes sense since the guard is in, what? 50 lbs of armor? Running and jumping however, I disagree, guards are specially trained and physically hardened towards using their armor in situations. This means they would be able to do all "out of water" things as well as thieves, well other than hiding in shadows =P.

[Entropy]

So to amend, I think a thief should swim, climb, run, mantle faster than a guard does, regardless of light. After all, that big lug is wearing armor!

Agreed! When guards hit thieves it slows them down anyway, so a thief being struck would still not be able to flee easily, but a thief could make a break for it better than they can now, and with a nerfed blackjack I think the thieves deserve some compensation.

[Majarisan]

I challenge anyone who says the guards should match thieves in speed to go put on a suit of plate mail, and try to run around. I don't care how 'specially trained' the guards are... armor is bloody heavy and you simply can't run as fast while wearing it. Not only is it a question of strength, it also just cumbersome. This is a game however, so that agruement doesn't hold much weight here. I do think with the BJ nerf on the way, a speed bonus to theives is warranted though.

[KewlAzMe]

We can assume that these thieves have better eyes than the guards, and would most likely be able to see where they are going in darkness

How can we assume that exactly?! Should we also assume that guards can tie thier shoe laces better than thieves? That makes no sense.

As far as guards running speed.. That definitely needs to be fixed especially since the guards are slightly faster than the thieves! The way these thieves walk ... they look like they are all ballerina's .. all lightfooted and stuff.. i think they would be a little faster than some bumbling guard who's been on his feet all day, carrying a heavy sword and a crossbow in his pants. So yes.. make the guards a little slower.. but in this game..that may also cause a great loss in playability. It is something that needs to be tested first.

[Machine]

Dammit, I still want Jedi Knight 2 styleeeee running up walls!

[-=V12US=-]

Dammit, I still want Jedi Knight 2 styleeeee running up walls!

You want the walltricks? I want the swordbattles damnit!

Jedi Knight 2's lightsaber battles were the most intense ones I've ever seen!
It'd be really great for the guards, so they try to finnish off their opponent with a stylish overhead lunge... plus it would be great for thieves so they can see when a guard is shadowslashing...

That, and it make the sword more of a skill weapon, since thieves can duck to avoid the blade (this will also require much skill), and sword thieves can have more strategical battles with guards.

Blocking would be harder too.

[Machine]

Dammit, I still want Jedi Knight 2 styleeeee running up walls!

You want the walltricks? I want the swordbattles damnit!

Jedi Knight 2's lightsaber battles were the most intense ones I've ever seen!
It'd be really great for the guards, so they try to finnish off their opponent with a stylish overhead lunge... plus it would be great for thieves so they can see when a guard is shadowslashing...

That, and it make the sword more of a skill weapon, since thieves can duck to avoid the blade (this will also require much skill), and sword thieves can have more strategical battles with guards.

Blocking would be harder too.

Yeah can you imagine!

The guard slashes the theif, jumps a tiny bit from the floor spins 360 with his sword held horizontally at head head hieght lopping it off upon contact, the skull making a hollow boink noise as it hits the floor!! cool!

I love the idea of ducking to avoid the blade, maybe a thief who is facing a guard should automaticly 'dodge' a certian percentage of attacks?

[Tieom]

Yeah... JKII swordbattles with TUT lag.

Two guys run around a corner at the same time, both see the other standing there, both whip out their swords and kill them. Lag stops, and they both die and go "WTF".

[BiG_D]

How can we assume that exactly?!

1. Thieves can see other thieves in the dark.
2. Most guards wear a helmet, which would most likely constrict their vision.
3. The guards are sitting in the light all the time, which would make their vision in the dark much worse.

Of course, any changes will require testing. If it works for gameplay, who cares about logic?

[-=V12US=-]

Basically, when the lightgem is pure black (invisible thief) the thief gets a bonus to speed. Somewhere along the lines of crouching -> creeping, creeping -> running, running -> 1/2 between running and speed pot.

The upsides -
Thieves will swim faster than guards in most areas.
Puts control of dark areas even more into thieves hands.
Makes dark areas more of a safe haven to flee to.
Puts more value on tags.
Reduces shadowslashing ability.

The downsides -
Invis now confers speed bonus.
Puts more value on firebolts.

Those are the only ones I can think of at the moment.

I've been thinking a bit about this, and I think the speed bonus is a very good idea!
Thieves will love it, but in order to prevent DM thieves taking advantage of it, the speed bonus should be negated whenever the thief has readied a weapon (Blackjack, Sword or Bow).

Furthermore, I think moving around with a charged weapon should slow down characters by 25%, but that's a different issue.

[Aggamemnon]

Rune has much better swordfights compared to jediknight 2.

In jedi knight your nearly as much rewarded fo rsimply flailing about and hey Rune is based on the ut engine so it cant be bad....



Rune rocks your feeble little minds, plus slicing off limbs is far better, they also have shields (ooo), can throw each weapon and theres a new streetstyle mod coming out soon heheh.

hmm link seems to be down ...
http://www.runegame.com/

And, KAM, thieves run just as fast as guards, just in combat (IE weapon ready) they are slower.

[KewlAzMe]

And, KAM, thieves run just as fast as guards, just in combat (IE weapon ready) they are slower.

Well, they may not be faster... But a Guard with sword should not be able to run as fast as thief empty handed, thats the real problem here. Instead of the making thieves faster in full darkness, they should just be faster when running away from an armed guard. This way when ever a guard arms himself he immediately slows down.. the Mace (and crossbow?) already implements this function, but it needs to be implemented for the Sword.