~TuF~ vs FAG Friendly

[immortius]

Imp and others will confirm that some guards are definitely harder to KO than others this signifies that some guards are more experienced, smarter and more skilled than others when 'duelling' him. If it was only luck then he wouldn't experience this, correct?

Not necessarily. If the guards in question are themselves experiencing significant lag, then Impulse would have the same problem in dealing with them that others have in dealing with him. That still falls in the realm of chance, or "luck".

This doesn't work both ways, LR. If you say lag is improving Impulse's chances, you can't claim that it increases the chances of the Guards as well. Guards with higher lag should have more of a problem, as the total difference in time between the guard and Impulse is increased.

[LaughingRat]

This doesn't work both ways, LR. If you say lag is improving Impulse's chances, you can't claim that it increases the chances of the Guards as well. Guards with higher lag should have more of a problem, as the total difference in time between the guard and Impulse is increased.

Precisely, making them more difficult to KO, just as Impulse is more difficult to hit.

[Machine]

LR's right. Lag IS an advantage, if used right. There's been UT and UT2K3 clans that have INDUCED lag for their flag runner, just so they can't be hit. Although this is cheating, even if they didn't induce it, would you want to play against a team that has a flag runner that bounces from one side to another?

I've heard of those "Lag Generaters", and never really considered what they can be used for... I do know that hitting a laggy player in SOF2 is way harder than taking down a normal one, unless they are dumb and stand on the spot whilst i circle strafe them. But players who know how to exploit it are often quite formiddable.

[FixXxeR]

Every player I have spoken with about an encounter with Impulse has always been the same. At firsts he's right there... then his isnt and your KO'ed.

Glad, is wise in saying that Impulse need special attention when it comes to countering his lag, but in my eyes that isnt right because Impulse has an advantage over other players.... becasue he lags. Above all, what gets to me about this is (1) Impulse gets very defensive and abusive when confronted about his lag and KO's (2) He bloody abuses it, by luring and KOing over and over. Thats not TUT my friend, thats closer to UT. I see his lag KO's as a cheat.... If everyone could do the lags KO's I would have no problem.... its just the fact that its just impulse has this advantage, NO one else.

[immortius]

This doesn't work both ways, LR. If you say lag is improving Impulse's chances, you can't claim that it increases the chances of the Guards as well. Guards with higher lag should have more of a problem, as the total difference in time between the guard and Impulse is increased.

Precisely, making them more difficult to KO, just as Impulse is more difficult to hit.

Nonono.... If the bj is calculated client side, then the more time between Impulse and his target guard, the bigger his advantage. That is all. Higher lag on the guard end cannot make this more difficult because all that matters is the position of the guard on Impulse's end. You're arguing that Impulse gets an advantage from having more time between him and other players, and that guards can reduce this advantage by adding more time. I might not be very good at explaining this, but I can assure you that it is contradictory.

[Rodent]

In my experience with Lag and TUT, the following things occur.

Thieves with +350 ping are at an advantage when aggresively KOing, because the guard cannot rely on the visual image of the thief to keep his view on the target

Thieves with 350+ ping are at a disadvantage when trying to escape, run away or hide, because the information from there client takes time to relay to the server, thus it isn't uncommon for me to be hit by a guard who I had just closed a door on, or one that seems to still be 10 feet away, running towards me.
Also, when opening a door when trying to escape, you face a very nervous full half second wait, for the door to actually open, while the guard barrells down on you.

Guards with 350+ ping are at a disadvantage vs aggressive Koing, more so than a guard who has 100ping, because the information on the 350+ pinger's client is even more outdated, so the thief could be anywhere within 1 whole second, instead of just .5 seconds; the 100ping guard has lower reaction times.

Guards with 350+ ping are at a disadvantage when shooting, because the bolts actually take extra time to fire, which must by accounted for when aiming.


Impulse faces a very difficult situation. Despite the advantages of aggressively Koing with 500 ping, a large amount of twitch and skill/practice is still required, and thus it is somewhat understandable when he grows irritated from people dismissing his obvious talent.

However, it also cannot be denied that his postition, places guards at a crucial disadvantage, where they must rely on a factor of luck when fighting him, because he is anywhere 1 second ( about a 3 metre radius) from where he appears.

Whether he should be allowed to play or not is debatable.
The problem seems to be that, indeed, why should he not KO, when all other options place him at a disadvantage because of his lag, yet Guards cannot help see him as unfair, because of the advantage he has.

The only solution is alot more tolerance, from all parties.

[CrouchingDork]

But the thing is, he doesn't hide, run, shoot, or escape. So, sure, there's a TINY bit of skill, but 90% of it is just lag.

[impulse]

In my experience with Lag and TUT, the following things occur.

Impulse faces a very difficult situation. Despite the advantages of aggressively Koing with 500 ping, a large amount of twitch and skill/practice is still required, and thus it is somewhat understandable when he grows irritated from people dismissing his obvious talent.

Exactly.

I was never confronted about my koing in the beginning as the effect I had on the game was minimal. This was due to lack of practice and understanding of my lag.

Through much practice I have learnt to adapt to these second delays. This involves predicting a future event based upon inaccurate and delayed information. This definately requires skill.

When being pursued by a guard without turning to confront him/her I am often hit when you appear to be more than 10 metres away from me. I have a greater chance of surviving with a bj out confronting the guard than to continue to run away (only to be continually hit 10 metres from any threat). This is obviously an undesirable effect of lag and how you could possibly consider this an advantage is beyond me.

Taking this into consideration, its true I do get upset whenever I achieve something only to be put down based on the fact I lag. Its come to the point that if any event turns out in my favour (influenced by lag or not), its always due to luck and not skill.

[TafferBoy]

Firstly very well said rodent! 8)

Lag is NOT a normal part of this game, for most players. Even for most Australian players, it's not as pronounced as Impulse's situation. His connection seems to experience significant periods of packet loss as well, long enough to be considered actually disconnected from a server, during which he can move at will, without his position being updated for any other player. When shot at or swung at during these periods, what would normally be hits are instead misses, again putting him in the realm of having an advantage that other players do not. While I don't think it's deliberate on his part, and therefore not cheating, it is something that has to be taken into account, particularly in an actual competition situation. In any formal tournament in any other game, Impulse would not be allowed to play, due to his situation.

By Lag I mean of course 'Ping' and I can assure you that all players have a ping and therefore experience lag at greater and lesser degrees.
In regards to the periods of packet loss, they are of no advantage to the player. (Speaking from experience here).
During these periods, you can move around, but cannot do anything to other players, as you have no connection with the server, also when the period ends you snap back to your position at the start and so definitely no advantage can be had through this. :?

Like Rodent and Immort said high pings provide no real advantages with guarding, as a guard with Higher Ping it is easier for Impulse to BJ me than other guards with a CS. Also I will add that I can experience frontals from nearly every member of the thievery community that are partial to a bit of Bj'ing due to my lag/ping. Which is probably why I don't get worried or angry if I get Ko'ed from metres in front of me. As it happens quite frequently and I have learnt to just accept it.

[Tobias_the_taffer]

so you gonna let impy play?

[FixXxeR]

Frontal KO's are not a part of the game, therefore it is not a normal part of the game. If 1 player can frontal KO he/she has an extreme advantage over other players.

[Flack]

Ok, is the date: 18th, this month & year at 5:00 am GMT OK?
For ppl from USA it will be night, for Australia it will be afternoon, for Europe early morning, so no all-night drinking, dancing parties before!

We have now 2 FAG members applying for that, i thing the third is coming.
The best fun i think will be to have as much people as possible, if the amount on the teams will differ, we will have spectators. So ~TuF~gather people and FAG will do that to. 18th is a far term (for USA it will be 17th) so it will not be a burden for anyone to say play or not play, and then 2~~3 days before we will set the teams (and maps). But first let us/You fing the players and then we talk about rules/maps etc.

Hope you undestand that.
In short: We/You find players. Post it on Your forums and in 3 days we gonna plan it all.

Thanks!

EDIT: Post another reasonable date here (Saturday/Sunday) ot accept that .

[Machine]

5 am is a little early on weekends because I work normally and so does Fix. Also I have to take my GF down to work at 6am most weekends too which sucks penis

So possibly a bit later? or the evening?

[FixXxeR]

sheesh I'll get up at around 6:00 - 6:30am for a match... but 5am? That cant be a serious proposition.

[The Dragon]

Well, M did it for us...

No, seriously, there's no way I can make that time.