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  • Designing the New TurfWars

    I, along with the help of others like AO, have had some ideas on how to revamp TurfWars to create a more fair and interesting way of having the guilds compete. I think many of the things in the current TWs went pretty well, and so of course much will stay the same in the next version, but I think that we can also learn from the mistakes. So, here are my ideas for the design and implementation of the next TWs. I look forward to any input and whether we should go forward with it.

    Basic Concept Changes

    I find the way the tournament works in itself a bit unfair. The fact that different maps have different values doesn't make much sense to me, especially when some of the bigger valued maps are the most one-sided. My idea is that the tournament will be based off of the amount of 'land' your guild controls, rather than loot values of the maps. A graphical map will be introduced with locations of all the maps from the game on it. The guilds will initially split up the maps (probably will pick the maps the same way LR had us do it in the first TW) and claim their territory on the gameboard. Guilds can then attempt to invade any territory that is adjacent to their own territory, but can only be making one invasion attempt at a time. This prevents a guild from being able to randomly challenge just any map, you MUST challenge one that is next to your own territories. A guild wins by controlling a certain % of the total gameboard (I was thinking 50%, but this is what I'm hoping for input on).

    Making an Invasion

    Last TW suffered from guilds ignoring challenges made to their turf. Well, TW2 would bring an end to this. After an invasion challenge has been made, the guild being challenged has 4 weeks to have the match before their turf will become forgeit to the challenger. However, the guild that makes the challenge is responsible for making whatever time the challenged specifies. Failing to do so could result in the the loss of your own turf. I'm hoping that guilds will be reasonable and work out times with their fellow guilds, but if they can't work things out we will fall back on the rules and a turf will be lost.

    The Actual Match

    The rules for the actual in-game match would change as well. It would be carried out much like the matches of ToD v3. This seemed to work out extremely well, and I think it should be implemented in TWs. Both guilds will have their leader join the thief team after a server reset. The auto balance will send one team to the guard team, and one will stay as a thief. The team that stayed thief then has the option to choose whether they would like to guard or thieve the first round. The teams will then play a best of 3 on the map being invaded. THERE WILL BE NO SEPERATE TIEBREAKER MAP in this TWs. If after two rounds both teams have one win, the team that thieved first thieves the third round and the team that guarded will guard the third round. The winner of this third round is the winner of the invasion attempt.

    After the Match

    If the victor was the defending guild, then they get to retain their map and move on with any other challenges they are apart of in the TW. The guild that challenged them and lost gains no new territory and must wait two (up for debate?) weeks before they can declare another invasion challenge.

    If the victor went to the invading guild, they gain their new territory and all parties can continue on with the games.




    I know these are just general ideas right now, but I've got a pretty good idea of how this could work out well in my head. If I can think of anything else I might have missed I will post it, but other than that I look forward to your input.

    Biohazard
    Biohazard
    Member
    Last edited by Biohazard; 26 Jul 2004, 10:31 AM.

  • #2
    basic concept changes: That sounds great, but i'd say 75% moer than 50%. It reminds me of lemmings 2 , conquerering each tribes puzzles to put together the talisman (never did manage it either).

    Invasion: I don't think it was ever a problem of challenges being ignored, I think it was just there was never a time to suit everyone due to timezone differences (how many players ended up playing their matches at 3am ?)

    actual match: no tie breaker seems okay, it stops the fact that people could win the tie breaker even if they were playing for a different map at the start.

    After the Match: Will there be any rule to stop the guild challenging the same guild every time (eg we beat -X- guild so they challenge us again a few days later )

    On some other qestions: Is it just the old TW maps? or just official ones etc? Will guilds keep their old maps or be given new ones -or- will they all be put in the "map pool" and each guild have to challenge for it to begin with ?
    Just a few things I could think of to ask (though as you say it's just general ideas atm)
    [E.D.G]Chief

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    • #3
      Stickied. Commentary later.
      Nearly all men can stand adversity -- if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.

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      • #4
        What about servers? Do we just ask a server admin if they will host our match?
        And about that 2 weeks wait thing, it should be 1 week.
        Heh, this kind of sounds like Risk: Thievery version.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ]>CoD<[Chief
          After the Match: Will there be any rule to stop the guild challenging the same guild every time (eg we beat -X- guild so they challenge us again a few days later )

          On some other qestions: Is it just the old TW maps? or just official ones etc? Will guilds keep their old maps or be given new ones -or- will they all be put in the "map pool" and each guild have to challenge for it to begin with ?
          Just a few things I could think of to ask (though as you say it's just general ideas atm)
          After the match: If a guild wants to try to take back some territory, they have a right to rechallenge for their land back. But should they lose, then they have to suffer the time limit of not being able to challenge.

          I was thinking to keep things simple it would be strictly official maps released with 1.4.

          I also think that all the maps should be reset and redistributed.

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          • #6
            The guilds participating will need to work out their own way to get a server. I'm sure people like Brody or Grank would be happy to let you use a server if you ask them nicely.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Biohazard
              The guilds participating will need to work out their own way to get a server. I'm sure people like Brody or Grank would be happy to let you use a server if you ask them nicely.
              Unless you're in our banlist.

              Comment


              • #8
                OMG! But, but, but I'm on the ban list!

                Comment


                • #9
                  OK, I like the new concept. That said, problems and solutions...

                  - On one notable occasion we had to reduce our three players to a team of two to cater for the opposition team. To solve this, I think the challenger should specify the amount of players (although they cannot specify over 3v3 unless the defenders also agree) and the defenders will have to run with that. If the defenders cannot produce 3 players, they should have to play a 2v3 match. Think about it - if someone invades your turf, you shouldn't be able to send some of the attackers home simply because you can't match their strength. That is YOUR problem. It will also encourage guilds to be more active or recruit more players. Basically it would be regulated (no stupid 1v1s unless both guilds want it) - so you could pick to attack with either 2 or 3 men, or seek permission from the other guild for more / less than those two amounts.

                  - Map selection - the Guilds, by now, know which maps are best to own in a TurfWar. Make the map distribution random (and overseen by a NEUTRAL PARTY), and do not give away 100% of the maps - have some open for challenge, so the first week or 4 are hectic with people grabbing turf. Draw up suitable takeover rules for this - it'd basically play like a ToD match.

                  - If defending your own turf is not grounds for gaining new maps, set a cap on how often you can be challenged by the same Guild - i.e. a two week grace period after which someone challenges, within which they are not allowed to challenge you again. This can allow Guilds to make some challenges themselves without having to constantly waste time on defense - perhaps some penalties could be applied for constantly losing games that they were the challengers in?
                  Nightmaster,
                  .:Mockers Thievery Guild:.
                  - "until the cat is skinned"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by okih-imus
                    OMG! But, but, but I'm on the ban list!
                    Although we're touched that you appear so thrilled you've finally been banned, it'd be appreciated if you'd not mention it in every other thread. Thanks.
                    Nearly all men can stand adversity -- if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      - How will your tournament deal with guilds losing all their turf?
                      Will there be permanent elimination?


                      - Are you sure it's a good idea to have challengers being able to ultimately decide the match time?- what if they pick a ridiculous time for your timezone, I'd like to avoid repeats of the good old 5am matches
                      Last edited by Rodent; 26 Jul 2004, 03:06 AM.
                      Nightwarden,
                      .:Mockers Thievery Guild:.
                      - "Earth dons the red; calls the maggots."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rodent
                        ...Are you sure it's a good idea to have challengers being able to ultimately decide the match time?...
                        You may have misread the "making an invasion" section. As I understand the it: The challenged (defenders) set the time (implied), while the challengers are responsible for arriving at the appointed time.

                        Originally posted by Biohazard
                        .... However, the guild that makes the challenge is responsible for making whatever time the challeneged specifies. ...
                        (emphasis mine)
                        Give some taffer fire, and you'll keep him warm for the night with one less reason to cause trouble for the master.
                        Set a taffer on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life, and have no need to bother the master.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Shug
                          - On one notable occasion we had to reduce our three players to a team of two to cater for the opposition team. To solve this, I think the challenger should specify the amount of players (although they cannot specify over 3v3 unless the defenders also agree) and the defenders will have to run with that. If the defenders cannot produce 3 players, they should have to play a 2v3 match. Think about it - if someone invades your turf, you shouldn't be able to send some of the attackers home simply because you can't match their strength. That is YOUR problem. It will also encourage guilds to be more active or recruit more players. Basically it would be regulated (no stupid 1v1s unless both guilds want it) - so you could pick to attack with either 2 or 3 men, or seek permission from the other guild for more / less than those two amounts.

                          - If defending your own turf is not grounds for gaining new maps, set a cap on how often you can be challenged by the same Guild - i.e. a two week grace period after which someone challenges, within which they are not allowed to challenge you again. This can allow Guilds to make some challenges themselves without having to constantly waste time on defense - perhaps some penalties could be applied for constantly losing games that they were the challengers in?
                          I think you mentioned something like this about ToD, and I really like the idea. An invading guild CAN ALWAYS use up to three players in a match, and the defense must try to match that number. If they can only get one guy, then its a 3 vs 1. But if the invading team wants more than 3, they have to clear it with the defending guild first.

                          The rules say that if a guild attempts an invasion and loses, they can't make any challenges for two weeks. Isn't that the same as what you're talking about?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rodent
                            - How will your tournament deal with guilds losing all their turf?
                            Will there be permanent elimination?


                            - Are you sure it's a good idea to have challengers being able to ultimately decide the match time?- what if they pick a ridiculous time for your timezone, I'd like to avoid repeats of the good old 5am matches
                            I am a fan of permanent elimination. But if somebody else has a better idea I could go for that.

                            The people being challenged get to pick the time of the match, IF the teams can't agree on a time. I'm hoping that in most cases the guildmasters will just get together and agree on a time that works for all parties. But also, if you are being challenged you could easily pick an Aussie time and make the other team get up when you want them to.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Biohazard
                              The rules say that if a guild attempts an invasion and loses, they can't make any challenges for two weeks. Isn't that the same as what you're talking about?
                              Fair call, skimmed the wording in my haste.
                              Nightmaster,
                              .:Mockers Thievery Guild:.
                              - "until the cat is skinned"

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