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TW III Mockers v Forsaken - Movement IV

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  • #31
    Unfortunately not, there was no-one on hold to gamecam them.
    Nightwarden,
    .:Mockers Thievery Guild:.
    - "Earth dons the red; calls the maggots."

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    • #32
      indeed, I'm more disappointed about the blatent abuse of trust, when we opted to waive the right to have people sitting in each other ts channels.

      Regardless the matches themselves were good and extremely competative, mockers didn't have an answer for the Forsaken's grange guarding strategy and failed to seize the initiative.
      The attempt to thieve Flats was carried out with much vigour and some fast rushes, unfortunatly this was anticipated by the mockers guards, who weathered a storm of assaults on loot locations.

      EDIT: And whatever Dragon, you must've known what you were doing was wrong at least take it on the chin.
      .: Daymaster - Mockers Thievery Guild :.

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      • #33
        Believe it or not, this was a "can't be arsed to replace Gabriel" move rather than a "win at all costs" move. No mention in the rules...okay, there's an easy solution.

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        • #34
          If you couldn't replace him, then you should have played a man down, just like NDLW on Korman and STAMPEDE on Warehouse.
          Nightwarden,
          .:Mockers Thievery Guild:.
          - "Earth dons the red; calls the maggots."

          Comment


          • #35
            and why didn't you play Zidane instead?

            Edit:
            At the end of the day no tournament in the world allows people to play for multiple teams and no tournament in the world allows people to play for teams they are not in.
            I believe it would be rather implicit in the rules for this tournament however you look at it.
            .: Daymaster - Mockers Thievery Guild :.

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            • #36
              I was hesitant to disqualify the Forsaken, since it would hurt the tournament in general to lose another team. If they'd like to withrdaw -- either out of honor or lack of interest -- they're free to do so, and I think I've found a way to make the tourney still work. Kindly let me know before the start of the next move.

              There is no explicit and specific mention in the rules anymore about matches only being played by members of the involved teams. There was before, in the preparation section -- it's since been deleted, unfortunately. That oversight will be remedied shortly.

              However, I think it's quite clear that this violates the spirit of the rules, if not the particular letter of them. It's obvious this was not intended -- unlike map exploits, which were specifically permitted -- and done with the intention of breaking the spirit of the rules. I'm also, like TafferBoy, quite saddened at the abuse of trust involved in this.
              Nearly all men can stand adversity -- if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.

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              • #37
                This rule covers having people not in your team playing anyway:

                Originally posted by WildBill
                Tournament Rules

                III - There will be one match for each attack. It will take place before the start of the next move on the attacked map, between the attacking team and the team that possesses that turf. If the attacking team wins the match, the turf they attacked becomes theirs.
                Immortius' Forge

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                • #38
                  Sorry guys, Yes I admit I played as {~Rahvin~} having checked over the rules and seeing no explicit rule to forbid this we went ahead. There was even encouragement from Bill in one post about alliances... I remember not where now tho.

                  Grank, I do not see this as cheating, I did in no way use anything outside the realms of the game to enhance playing ability, If you regard me "breaking" Wildbills rules (which I do not agree I did) as cheating then so be it... If thats your administrative decision then fair enough. I personally think its ridiculous, but you provide that server for us and if you feel I have wronged you then what can I do? I have been an integral member of this commuinity since day 1, sure, there have been monents but that no different to any other person.

                  Ok, so I am kicked from TW3? For an oversight in the rules? Also banned from Crackaz? Oh the fall of The Machine! Whilst this may be a sad day for you, it is surely a sad day for me - even so, in the distance I see people laughing.

                  Take this for what you will, I have no regrets, I do not believe I cheated or broke any rules. Don't talk to me about "abuse of trust" from the man who quits TuF, then forms a piss take guild to stand against them... from a man who has "All warfare is based of deception" in his signiture telling ME that TurfWARs is to have NO DECEPTION? - The aquatone bug made that map UNWINNABLE, the outcome of these 2 matches was balanced.

                  I'd just like to add that those 2 matches (Very early morning for me) were excellent and of a high standard. It's rare we see TuF vs .:m. these days.

                  Sadly it looks like the last, which is a pity given our current pledge to try and see each other eye to eye.

                  I obviously ask you reconsider the Crackaz ban Grank. I sent you this in a IM - but if this is a temp ban then give me a date and I'll adhere to it. If it's a perma ban, well... cross that bridge when we come to it.

                  TW3? I'm done with, for the sole reason that I believe it is being very badly administered.
                  Last edited by Machine; 24th Apr 2005, 04:18 AM.
                  ~TuF~

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                  • #39
                    I would say its nothing personal against you machine, from my standpoint at least, just to let you know I'm not holding anything against you and I look forwards to games of Guildwars next week.
                    Rather unfortunate circumstances really, they were good matches and I agree its good to play in a Tuf v M match. It seems hard to be involved in games of thievery without ending up in some controversy or another.

                    I can't understand why you guys thought that your actions wouldn't be consider to be in breach of rules??? even if there was no explicit rule, the actions were certainly dishonest.
                    All I can think is that you you and forsaken thought you could get away with it and just took that risk. Unlucky for you Shug has a keen eye.

                    As for poor administration I believe Bill had a good system going, loose and brief rules to create a more casual tournament, in this case i believe it was the participants that let him down.
                    .: Daymaster - Mockers Thievery Guild :.

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                    • #40
                      lets go guild wars!! well theres only a few more moves left then tw3 will be over. then we can all get along again.
                      I have sex with my hand!

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                      • #41
                        Thought you'd get back at the mockers (who used a map exploit which is specifically allowed in the rules) by misrepresenting yourself as a member of another team huh?

                        Heaven forbid the machine (and the rest of tuf) falsly ally themselves with someone in the theivery world for their own benefit.

                        Oh wait...

                        You got your just desserts. Call it what you will.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by TafferBoy
                          I would say its nothing personal against you machine, from my standpoint at least, just to let you know I'm not holding anything against you and I look forwards to games of Guildwars next week.
                          So do I.

                          Originally posted by TafferBoy
                          Rather unfortunate circumstances really, they were good matches and I agree its good to play in a Tuf v M match.
                          Glad you agree.

                          Originally posted by TafferBoy
                          I can't understand why you guys thought that your actions wouldn't be consider to be in breach of rules??? even if there was no explicit rule, the actions were certainly dishonest.... ...As for poor administration I believe Bill had a good system going, loose and brief rules to create a more casual tournament, in this case i believe it was the participants that let him down.
                          This is something we will never agree on. I won't argue because of the apathy I have for TW3 at the moment. There is no grudge between me and .:m. - I'm sorry Fri you feel that way, you have your opinion of me and my "management techniques"... if it matters my opinion of you has always remained good regardless.

                          I will attempt to resolve my Crackaz Ban out of principle. Though I'm not sure as to the frequency I would use it anyway after Guildwars release. I'll do it out of pride.
                          ~TuF~

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                          • #43
                            So i've been thinking (it hurt) but what i came up with is what is the point of turfwars? if .:m. can use the lift bug and not be disqualified. then mach alias as gab and be kicked from turf wars 3. when there is nothing in the rules that saids they can't do that? I just don't see the point in tw3, it's like bill is in favor of .:m. winning the tornament, when he SHOULD be nuetral. If anything if this is gonna be like this i'm out of the torney on account of ban adminship, and shit rules.
                            Last edited by FistaKufs; 24th Apr 2005, 06:21 AM.
                            I have sex with my hand!

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                            • #44
                              I'm sorry but I withdraw from TurfWars 3, I see no more point in playing it.

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                              • #45
                                Well in an attempt to clear things up a little...

                                The Mockers exploit on Aquatone; was perfectly within a teams rights as the rules stood. It was a situation that had never happened before, no rules were there to cover it. The specifics of the rules allowed it, but it stretched what the rules were understood to cover. Lame yes, but ruled fair.

                                The second incident was viewed as a violation of an implicit rule which was perhaps so typical that it was taken for granted, but as yet, not explicitly in the rules as such. Technically allowed under the rules (some have argued), but ruled to be against the spirit of the tournament and the good faith of the players involved.

                                Really the entire thing is the matter of opinion, and conflicting opinions have been voiced already.

                                And HS I would suggest not bringing up claims of bias and look at the situation from Bill's perspective.
                                The rules are pretty bloody straightforwards and people agreed to them when they entered the tournament. Again I would like to see you or anyone do a better job before you judge. As it was, Bill was the one who stepped forwards and got the tournament going and considering he isn't god, I don't think you can expect him to forsee the events that took place in the tournament.
                                Last edited by TafferBoy; 24th Apr 2005, 06:40 AM.
                                .: Daymaster - Mockers Thievery Guild :.

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