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  • #76
    Originally posted by Citizen Erased
    My point is that it is not meant to be possible. As an example, stuff like rapid fire crossbow is not counterable and not intended. According to many people though it is encouraged. Apparently I am a scrub if I say using it is wrong. This is the sad state of some people's mentalities.
    It's irrelevant whether it's meant to be possible or not. It is. Refusing to deal with that is refusing to deal with the game-as-it-is.

    People are also not meant to be driving through intersections when their light is red, yet people sometimes do. Are you going to charge headlong through your own green light when someone is running the red in the other direction, just because they're not meant to be? If so, you're not dealing with the intersection-as-it-is.

    In both cases, there's a basic denial of reality occurring.

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    • #77
      Fair enough, however that doesn't make it right.

      But then nobody seems too care aboutr right or wrong nowadays anyway This is applies to life aswell and perhaps more so.
      These days I find that I can't be bothered,
      To argue with them - well what's the point?
      Better to take you shots and drop down dead.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Citizen Erased
        Fair enough, however that doesn't make it right.
        That I can also agree with, with reservations. Running a red light isn't "right", either, after all.

        However, there's a very big difference between doing something that's truly morally wrong, and utilizing a non-gamebreaking exploit in an online game.

        You can always choose to advocate for changes in the game to the things you think are "wrong". But telling someone they can't or shouldn't use game features, intended or otherwise isn't any more "right" than using them is "wrong".

        They're there. Deal with them or don't, your choice. And just to set things in perspective, I'm someone who chose not to, having left the game. Playing wasn't fun for me any more. However, I never once said to anyone that it wasn't "right" or "wrong" for them to use what the game allowed them to do, except in cases that trivialized the game, or gave an unfair (ie, uncounterable) advantage, or broke gameplay completely.

        Originally posted by Citizen Erased
        But then nobody seems too care aboutr right or wrong nowadays anyway This is applies to life aswell and perhaps more so.
        Perhaps your passion and energy would be better spent on real life issues, then. On issues that actually matter in day to day life, rather than on relatively unimportant things like a game.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Citizen Erased
          Fair enough, however that doesn't make it right.

          But then nobody seems too care aboutr right or wrong nowadays anyway This is applies to life aswell and perhaps more so.
          Not entirely true, things are done in competative play that aren't done on public.
          Some players choose not to do certain things in the course of a public game because they might consider it 'harsh', not fun, or out of respect for those they play against.
          Most players, however, choose not to try to force/ask others to do the same, although there is certain 'if you scratch my back' system at play.

          This was always the case in my experience, there is no 'good old days' where everyone conformed to some sort of chivalristic code of conduct. As for it applying to life, 'right and wrong' has always been a flexible concept, as a student of history myself, I see no evidence of more 'moral' past, except in the perception of the nostalgic.
          .: Daymaster - Mockers Thievery Guild :.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Citizen Erased
            My point is that it is not meant to be possible. As an example, stuff like rapid fire crossbow is not counterable and not intended. According to many people though it is encouraged. Apparently I am a scrub if I say using it is wrong. This is the sad state of some people's mentalities.
            Look I don't like the rapid fire x-bow exploit and I got pretty pissed off about it at first but then I just dealt with it just by forgetting about it and enjoy playing the game. Also larger exploits like this are being fixed in 1.5 I think.
            Night of the Werewolves II
            HarryPotterwars
            A Thief's Guide to Thievery for UT (video not complete yet)

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            • #81
              Originally posted by TafferBoy
              This was always the case in my experience, there is no 'good old days' where everyone conformed to some sort of chivalristic code of conduct.
              No, but there was a "good old days" when people didn't use the tricks used now simply because they weren't known.

              Originally posted by TafferBoy
              As for it applying to life, 'right and wrong' has always been a flexible concept, as a student of history myself, I see no evidence of more 'moral' past, except in the perception of the nostalgic.
              Oh, but no, don't you know that morality is an empirical absolute? The church and an ever increasing number of politicians say so. And if you don't agree with them, then you, sir, are morally deficient.

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              • #82
                The hell... Who are all of you, and what have you done to the people that used to play Thievery?!

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                • #83
                  It's a game, it's supposed to be fun, I don't see that anymore. Too much complaining, too much nagging. Every man out for himself.
                  Some of the reasons why I don't play anymore.

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                  • #84
                    IDK, I can't remmember the last time I saw somone complain. Sure people use bugs, but its nothing that gets me too worked up anymore. I would agree that most players are out for themselves and don't want their buddy getting the loot while they get the map. But thats the way its always been, no?
                    "It is truly a shame that the guards must be kept from the very tools of thier proffesion, but such blatant misuse of gas arrows cannot be tolerated. Alas, that poor burrick..."

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by LaughingRat
                      Oh, but no, don't you know that morality is an empirical absolute? The church and an ever increasing number of politicians say so. And if you don't agree with them, then you, sir, are morally deficient.
                      haha yeh, I guess my point is that people themselves haven't changed, but society's expectations and control over the way people act has changed through the ages. People don't become 'less moral', they just become desensitised to moral behaviour. Just a point of view on the subject, and i'm all for disagreeing with the church and politicians btw.
                      Morality is vague kind of concept anyway.

                      Originally posted by LaughingRat
                      No, but there was a "good old days" when people didn't use the tricks used now simply because they weren't known.
                      The 'good old days' before people knew the tricks, like back in 1.2, it was a KO fest with no AI-wakeups and then in 1.3 it became a guard-fest with improved AI and wakeups. Its many of the thief 'tricks'/'exploits' that re-balanced the game and made it possible to win from nearly any position, which is why I like this game so much.
                      Get with the times yo

                      Originally posted by BA
                      It's a game, it's supposed to be fun, I don't see that anymore. Too much complaining, too much nagging. Every man out for himself.
                      Some of the reasons why I don't play anymore.
                      Depends who you play with really... I still find the game enjoyable and the majority of players good-natured.
                      If I look back, there were always complainers, naggers and all that, nothing has changed, and I reckon its got better.

                      Every since I've played this game I've coped all sorts of stuff from players complaining about this and that. I find it hard to believe that anything is profoundly different except perhaps your 'tolerance' of this behaviour? I mean no offense, I only speculate.
                      I am of the view that things always seem better in peoples memories, which is why we always hear the 'good old days' expression.
                      Last edited by TafferBoy; 5th May 2005, 11:53 PM.
                      .: Daymaster - Mockers Thievery Guild :.

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                      • #86
                        That is your opinion, I have mine, and yes things have changed. People change too over time. There are still decent games, BUT, somewhere along the way, the core values of what really matters in this game have been lost, to a certain extent.

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                        • #87
                          I guess we agree to disagree.
                          .: Daymaster - Mockers Thievery Guild :.

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                          • #88
                            Core values indeed... I hardly notice much difference between two years ago and now, really - other than the standard of guarding improving dramatically. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, you tend to forget about the conflicts and dramas of the past and just miss specific moments and happy memories. I tend to think it's no coincidence that all the active public Thievery players from the last few months don't wallow in the past like this... but the people that disappeared 6+ months ago and only played private games do. I don't presume to know which was the cause and which the effect, though

                            Funnily enough, the main change I noticed in players was actually an INCREASE in maturity - not overly surprising, considering the amount of teenagers we have here - a lot of them were very young when they started playing, and are now heading into the late stages of their teens.
                            Nightmaster,
                            .:Mockers Thievery Guild:.
                            - "until the cat is skinned"

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                            • #89
                              Total agreement from me Shug.

                              I also find it a bit weird that we have all these ex-players (or those who rarely play anymore), commenting on what thievery is like at the moment. Makes the claims less persuasive to me because of that.
                              .: Daymaster - Mockers Thievery Guild :.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Shug
                                Funnily enough, the main change I noticed in players was actually an INCREASE in maturity - not overly surprising, considering the amount of teenagers we have here - a lot of them were very young when they started playing, and are now heading into the late stages of their teens.
                                Salsa: The Z axis is the Acromaster's domain

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