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  • Unfinished Business Mappack

    Hi everyone,

    I was playing with the idea of organizing a TUT mapping contest. First of all, TUT could use some fresh input since it's old and there is only very rare new stuff (plus that 'new stuff' is nothing more than slightly altered 'old stuff' in most cases). I'd like to encourage mapping this way, but of course there is no real need for a contest if there aren't enough participants anyway. So I thought it's best to make some sort of survey.

    First off, when I look on older theads of the forum, there seem to be plenty of maps that were in development but then never released. I know that there were atleast DE2, Mordengaard had some maps too I think (TH-Mirror?), and back in the early days I think there was some sort of a train map that has never been completed. (Also Predator has had his Bank map?)

    Of course a mapping contest will be unlikely, so I thought of something smaller for the beginning, which can also be completed to a contest if necessary. Thats when I came up with the idea of an unfinished-business mappack: A mappack that contains of the maps that were in development but that were never released. (This can also include official TUT1.6 map-updates, if some mappers want to update their work).

    Note that I'm aware of phrases like 'TUT is old! It's not worth the trouble! It's dead!!'. Newer maps aren't played very often, since players seem to be stuck in the past, tending to play original maps only. But on the other hand, if you have fun mapping for an old game (e.g. you like the nostalgy, same as I do) and/or still have unreleased/unfinished material, you should think about it. It's also pity if all that work would be for nothing. I consider it as a try to get on with a community project which, hopefully, brings some positive influence to the game.

    I would like to see if I can find some interested people . Also note that I still have some stuff for fixing certain exploits, since I code/map by myself. (e.g. chest-leaning exploit on Korman, picking-through-cages on Folly etc.) so feel free to ask if you need something.

    a) Which unreleased maps do you have? Did/Do you consider finishing/releasing them?

    b) If you have released any maps already, did/do you consider updating them? (Like fixing bugs/exploits etc., some 'official map updates' would be cool )
    Last edited by Trapmaster; 20 Apr 2009, 10:18 AM.
    [E.D.G] Trapmaster - Doomsayer
    Brush scaling by 0.5325662468842 and still going

  • #2
    I once PMed alot of the map makers who had been developing maps and then they'd just dissapeared. I remember some were that things had happened, the maps had been lost, or they didn't feel they were that great in the end and they were left by the wayside.

    Personally I feel tut mapping ( ! TuT is OLD ! - there I said it ) should be allowed to fall by the wayside too, not to discourage people but NB is the next TuT and if you really feel like mapping it should be for NB (oh and I do NOT feel like mapping anymore, so you're all safe )

    A) Most of my maps were unfinished, but released - h2o and aquatone14 were the only ones truly finished.

    B) I did update them, and released them as a Redux pack.
    [E.D.G]Chief

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the info, Chief.

      Well, actually I understand your point. Mapping is too time consuming (hence that I never started mapping for TUT ). But when people still have material lying around that's not used, it would also have been a waste of time, which would also be sad.

      IMO NB doesn't mean that TUT will die out at once. older games are still played (e.g. doom, quake1 etc.), and I consider TUT as a classic too. The problem might be more that the TUT community is way smaller than the communities I mentioned.
      [E.D.G] Trapmaster - Doomsayer
      Brush scaling by 0.5325662468842 and still going

      Comment


      • #4
        When NB comes out, suspect TUT will fade fast. As that might not be for a while yet, I like the idea. If any one likes decorating- would be interested in working with someone on a map. Layouts, pathing, and other mechanics are things I can do relatively quickly, but the final clean-up takes me forever. Might be able to start something next month.

        If there is interest, would try to fix Stolen City so that it at does not crash server, objectives appear online, and a few trouble spots. Due do the nature of the build BSP's would likely remain.
        Give some taffer fire, and you'll keep him warm for the night with one less reason to cause trouble for the master.
        Set a taffer on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life, and have no need to bother the master.

        Comment


        • #5
          It's a very nice idea but it can be road to nowhere if we make the same mistakes again. Like fixing too big maps etc.

          There's more than enough reason for not releasing map. For example I have map named TH-Smalltown whispers II which was created by Judith from Polish Thief Forum. He used own resources (textures, music etc.) and he lost it so now it's impossible to load his map in UEd.

          BTW, does anyone know cause of crashing Asylum? It crashes my servers very often.

          TUT won't die that fast because you need get new PC to play NB.
          .:.S.e.r.v.e.r.B.r.o.w.s.e.r.:.

          Comment


          • #6
            Bandit, it's the torch at the bottom of the spiral staircase, I'll take a screen later on if you want. It's happened on brody's several times before as well. (Correct me if I'm wrong).

            As to the topic.
            I have several unfinished maps. Including Predator's Bank map, which could be cut or resized into something smaller, as currently it's too big for ued to load up. But, believe me, the map is awesome, it's bigger than any map currently on thievery.

            As for my maps, I could relatively map some small maps or collab with someone, seeing as I don't have enough time atm to make something big.
            Also, I think i've got some old maps in some of my old folders, I could spruce those up maybe.

            NB is possibly years away to be finished, TuT had a server with over 16 players at once this past week. And you usually, don't have a problem getting a game going. I'm all up for this idea.
            >Thievery Stealth<

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Bandit
              It's a very nice idea but it can be road to nowhere if we make the same mistakes again. Like fixing too big maps etc.
              I don't know if my idea was more about 'fixing' maps, but more about having all new maps for the community. I thought of it as a side effect since some of the 1.6 maps seem to be in a worse state than in 1.4 (as far as my memory goes). But generally there are already thousands of fixed versions and it's getting boring since it's no new stuff anyway. But 'official' map updates would be a nice addition too

              Originally posted by Bandit
              There's more than enough reason for not releasing map. For example I have map named TH-Smalltown whispers II which was created by Judith from Polish Thief Forum. He used own resources (textures, music etc.) and he lost it so now it's impossible to load his map in UEd.
              Let's say, I'm generally for releasing maps that don't have evil brush scaling (My attitude to that is no big secret), and seem to be of average - good quality. When mapping for UT I know I'm doing it for myself/private reasons and I have fun with it. Mapping for TUT is not the same, since SP is boring and can't be played well on low playercount. So the difference is that you can do stuff for yourself, or you choose to do it for others.

              I know there were some quite solid maps in the past. (Like I mentioned in the second paragraph of my first post). From what I have seen they got good quality and because of that I think they should be finished. Having such a quality also means it was lots of work that was spent.

              Of course I didn't see the screenshots of Mordengaards map but it's not that important, because Mordengaard is the very best TUT mapper around and his quality is always extraordinary. Back in December I pmmed him - no reply - and forum states he was last active something about summer 08. Very sad for me , he seemd to take care for TUT at most over all the years and I'd gladly liked to get to know him.

              About that map you mentioned, there are ways to recover them, but it's abit of work.

              Originally posted by Sly
              Including Predator's Bank map, which could be cut or resized into something smaller, as currently it's too big for ued to load up. But, believe me, the map is awesome, it's bigger than any map currently on thievery.
              And surely there are other maps like this, of good quality. I think it's the nodecount wasn't it? I could try to tune it down but I have to estimate what's possible.

              I think, if the map could be saved, it should be up to Predator what he wants to do with it.

              Originally posted by Sly
              As for my maps, I could relatively map some small maps or collab with someone, seeing as I don't have enough time atm to make something big.
              Also, I think i've got some old maps in some of my old folders, I could spruce those up maybe.
              Sounds nice. But remember rid that brush scaling it massively drops down the quality. Was thinking about making a map myself and use it as a base for writing a TUT mapping tutorial, but I got that time issue too.
              [E.D.G] Trapmaster - Doomsayer
              Brush scaling by 0.5325662468842 and still going

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Trapmaster View Post
                And surely there are other maps like this, of good quality. I think it's the nodecount wasn't it? I could try to tune it down but I have to estimate what's possible.

                I think, if the map could be saved, it should be up to Predator what he wants to do with it.
                Yes, the nodecount was the problem.
                Well, I've got three different versions of the map, 2 of them functional, and the latest is un-testable as far as I recall. The early versions work fine though.

                I've pmmed Predator continuously after he started "re-mapping" the map, and no reply after 3 months, and I just think it would be a shame to lose the map, seeing the huge potential it has. I think you've seen it, no?

                In unrelated news, I have a small map I started to work a while ago, called Th-Shanty, based on a small shanty town (duh), and I'm planning to start to work on that again.
                >Thievery Stealth<

                Comment


                • #9
                  There's more than enough reason for not releasing map. For example I have map named TH-Smalltown whispers II which was created by Judith from Polish Thief Forum. He used own resources (textures, music etc.) and

                  he lost it
                  Yes, I'm afraid UnrealEd has turned many people insane over the years....


                  so now it's impossible to load his map in UEd.
                  If you have the map then you can just check the logs, and use any old texture, sound etc to create new packages, sure it'll ruin the look of the map but you'd get the brush work back and then be able to re-texture from there.
                  [E.D.G]Chief

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Woohoo! It works! Thanks Chief!

                    TH-Smalltown Whispers:



                    .:.S.e.r.v.e.r.B.r.o.w.s.e.r.:.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Those shots look nice Bandit! It looks like it got potential. If you (/Judith) needs help feel free to ask.
                      [E.D.G] Trapmaster - Doomsayer
                      Brush scaling by 0.5325662468842 and still going

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        On Asylum crashes:
                        If it is the torch, as anybody ever tried reducing its radius? I recall torch related overlaps causing me all sorts of headaches on my one map initially. Coupled with a staircase (which, at least for that UED version, was trouble to begin with), that is trouble waiting to happen.

                        Also, I think spider AI also can crash maps. It seemed to be true of my map (ie plays fine until shortly after I disrupt a spider). TH-Spider also seemed to have a simliar problem at one point. Looking at log files on such maps, if I recall correctly, rught before crashes there is a long list AI search failed warning or something to that effect.

                        On mapping practice:
                        Read this on a UED site. At worst, will make your map sizes smaller, at best, will reduce BSP errors. When building a map, work from one master file that never is built. Instead, whenever you need to build and test, first save the map under a different name and test that. Same for all milestone revisions. Reason each build leaves some unused residue that increases file size and creates openings for the BSP goblins.

                        Also, when using custom textures, sounds, etc, incorporate them into the map, not as files to be added. I forget the details, but anything can added using my.level (or whatever that was called). This makes it easier for users to install, servers that download stuff, etc.
                        Give some taffer fire, and you'll keep him warm for the night with one less reason to cause trouble for the master.
                        Set a taffer on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life, and have no need to bother the master.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes, it's the "MyLevel" package.

                          @Serveradmins: Anything in the logs on that Asylum crashes ? Or any window with blah->blah->bla content?
                          [E.D.G] Trapmaster - Doomsayer
                          Brush scaling by 0.5325662468842 and still going

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You can play unfinished maps on my server:
                            tomcats.homeip.net:8888

                            I'm sure you will find there maps that you never seen before.

                            Originally posted by Trapmaster View Post
                            Those shots look nice Bandit! It looks like it got potential. If you (/Judith) needs help feel free to ask.
                            Judith said "feel free to go" and he won't make maps in UEd 2.0 anymore because now he is mapping in UEd 3.0 so we can grab his map.

                            Asylum server logs:
                            Code:
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-13 22:18][System]: (Thieves) Objective Complete:  Steal vaccine
                            ScriptLog: $ TH-Asylum.TObjectiveHelper0:(Thieves) Objective Complete:  Steal vaccine
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-13 22:19][TeamSay] (BadCheese): whres the body
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-13 22:19][TeamSay] (YorsoDed): and arch thinks my fault cuz he got banned :o
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-13 22:19][TeamSay] (BadCheese): where is the body
                            ScriptLog: TH-Asylum.ThObjectCarcass155 awaken called, pawnclass=ThieveryAI.TKnightSwordsman Guardname=Bloome
                            ScriptLog: TH-Asylum.ThObjectCarcass155 initial spawn failed, using spawn at free space
                            ScriptLog:   listing AI's inventory:
                            ScriptLog: TH-Asylum.ThObjectCarcass155 made an AI=TH-Asylum.TKnightSwordsman1 so destroying self
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-13 22:19][TeamSay] (Castiel): lol
                            ScriptLog: TH-Asylum.ThObjectCarcass156 awaken called, pawnclass=ThieveryAI.TKnightArcher Guardname=Murdoch
                            ScriptLog:   listing AI's inventory:
                            ScriptLog: TH-Asylum.ThObjectCarcass156 made an AI=TH-Asylum.TKnightArcher1 so destroying self
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-13 22:19][Say] (black_fox): gg ]:->
                            ScriptLog: $ [G]-black_fox:gg ]:->
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-13 22:19][TeamSay] (Castiel): He told me he was afraid of being home alone :P
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-13 22:19][TeamSay] (Wieking): y
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-13 22:19][Say] (YorsoDed): argh i dont like this smile :/
                            ScriptLog: $ [Spectator]YorsoDed:argh i dont like this smile :/
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-13 22:19][Say] (BadCheese):
                            >>>CRASHED HARD HERE - no auto restart - server process occupy 100% CPU
                            ==============================================================================================================
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-14 01:31][Event]: black_fox gave Smelly some unnecessary ventilation.
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-14 01:31][Event]: black_fox gave [FEAR]Fallen_Angel some unnecessary ventilation.
                            ScriptLog: TH-Asylum.ThObjectCarcass237 initfor TH-Asylum.ThieveryPPawn169 Pawn(Other)=TH-Asylum.ThieveryPPawn169 PRI=TH-Asylum.ThieveryPlayerReplicationInfo169
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-14 01:31][TeamSay] (cien): 1 vac
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-14 01:31][Event]: LoToR~TuF~ was killed by black_fox's Mace.
                            ScriptLog: TH-Asylum.ThObjectCarcass238 initfor TH-Asylum.ThieveryPPawn168 Pawn(Other)=TH-Asylum.ThieveryPPawn168 PRI=TH-Asylum.ThieveryPlayerReplicationInfo168
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-14 01:31][System]: (Thieves) New objective:  Steal vaccine
                            ScriptLog: $ TH-Asylum.TObjectiveHelper0:(Thieves) New objective:  Steal vaccine
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-14 01:31][TeamSay] (Pav^Tomcats^): hahaah
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-14 01:31][Say] (black_fox): pwnt
                            ScriptLog: $ [G]-black_fox:pwnt
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-14 01:31][TeamSay] (Pav^Tomcats^): xD
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-14 01:31][Say] (LoToR~TuF~): somethign like that
                            ScriptLog: $ [Spectator]LoToR~TuF~:somethign like that
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-14 01:31][Say] (black_fox): :P
                            ScriptLog: $ [G]-black_fox::P
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-14 01:31][Say] (black_fox): sorry
                            ScriptLog: $ [G]-black_fox:sorry
                            ScriptWarning: ThieveryPPawn TH-Asylum.ThieveryPPawn176 (Function ThieveryMod.ThieveryPPawn.ServerThrowHeldItem:0009) Accessed None
                            ScriptWarning: ThieveryPPawn TH-Asylum.ThieveryPPawn176 (Function ThieveryMod.ThieveryP
                            >>>CRASHED HARD HERE - no auto restart - server process occupy 100% CPU
                            ==============================================================================================================
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-20 20:58][TeamSay] (COLONEL_MACE): Thief Is Still Here Lets Cleaver Him
                            ScriptLog: TH-Asylum.ThObjectCarcass32 awaken called, pawnclass=ThieveryAI.TKnightArcher Guardname=Turnbull
                            ScriptLog:   listing AI's inventory:
                            ScriptLog: TH-Asylum.ThObjectCarcass32 made an AI=TH-Asylum.TKnightArcher3 so destroying self
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-20 20:59][TeamSay] (black_fox): 5 min
                            DevNet: Connection timed out after 60.000000 seconds (60.039886)
                            NetComeGo: Close TcpipConnection58 04/20/09 20:59:09
                            ScriptLog: $ Player logging out:Bandit^Tomcats^ at 20:59 20-4-2009
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-20 20:59][System]: Bandit^Tomcats^ left the game.
                            ScriptLog: $ TH-Asylum.ThieveryDeathMatchPlus7:Bandit^Tomcats^ left the game.
                            ScriptLog: TH-Asylum.ThObjectCarcass36 initfor TH-Asylum.TKnightArcher2 Pawn(Other)=TH-Asylum.TKnightArcher2 PRI=TH-Asylum.TBotReplicationInfo72
                            ScriptLog: TH-Asylum.ThObjectCarcass36 initfor this corpse, the pawnclass=ThieveryAI.TKnightArcher bstillalive=True gaurdname=McKay
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-20 20:59][Event]: Piwko_gaming gave Makao some unnecessary ventilation.
                            ScriptLog: TH-Asylum.ThObjectCarcass37 initfor TH-Asylum.ThieveryPPawn35 Pawn(Other)=TH-Asylum.ThieveryPPawn35 PRI=TH-Asylum.ThieveryPlayerReplicationInfo35
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-20 20:59][System]: (Thieves) New objective:  Steal vaccine
                            ScriptLog: $ TH-Asylum.TObjectiveHelper0:(Thieves) New objective:  Steal vaccine
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-20 20:59][TeamSay] (COLONEL_MACE): Thief Is Still Here Lets Cleaver Him
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-20 20:59][TeamSay] (COLONEL_MACE): Thief Is Still Here Lets Cleaver Him
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-20 20:59][TeamSay] (COLONEL_MACE): Thief Is Still Here Lets Cleaver Him
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-20 20:59][TeamSay] (COLONEL_MACE): Thief Is Still Here Lets Cleaver Him
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-20 20:59][TeamSay] (COLONEL_MACE): Thief Is Still Here Lets Cleaver Him
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-20 20:59][TeamSay] (COLONEL_MACE): Thief Is Still Here Lets Cleaver Him
                            ScriptLog: [ChatLog][2009-04-20 20:59][TeamSay] (COLONEL_MACE): Thief Is Still Here Lets Cleaver Him
                            ScriptLog: TH-Asylum.ThObjectCarcass38 initfor TH-Asylum.ThieveryPPawn32 Pawn(Other)=TH-Asylum.ThieveryPPawn32 PRI=TH-Asylum.ThieveryPlayerReplicationInfo32
                            ScriptLog: TH-Asylum.ThObjectCarcass38 initfor this corpse, the pawnclass=ThieveryAI.TKnightSwordsman bstillalive=True gaurdname=Malick
                            ScriptLog: AddDefaultInventory to player TH-Asylum.ThieveryPPawn32 in RestartPlayer
                            ScriptLog: [tdmplus] BuyItem(Pawn:TH-Asylum.ThieveryPPawn32 class:ThieveryMod.ThPickupRations Cost:35 Quantity:7 Limit:10
                            ScriptLog: [tdmplus] BuyItem(Pawn:TH-Asylum.ThieveryPPawn32 class:ThieveryMod.ThPickupPotionSpeed Cost:100 Quantity:1 Limit:2
                            ScriptLog: [tdmplus] BuyItem(Pawn:TH-Asylum.ThieveryPPawn32 class:ThieveryMod.ThPickupWhistler Cost:150 Quantity:2 Limit:2
                            ScriptLog: [tdmplus] BuyItem(Pawn:TH-Asylum.ThieveryPPawn32 class:ThieveryMod.ThPickupMine Cost:100 Quantity:2 Limit:2
                            ScriptLog: [tdmplus] BuyItem(Pawn:TH-Asylum
                            >>>CRASHED HARD HERE - no auto restart - server process occupy 100% CPU
                            edit:

                            It looks like those logs says nothing. Sly you are right it is torch but it crash server only when Ai is trying to relight it.

                            Video:
                            Last edited by Bandit; 22 Apr 2009, 12:19 PM.
                            .:.S.e.r.v.e.r.B.r.o.w.s.e.r.:.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Replace the torch with a flickering lantern, or maybe a lantern with a trigger light and an event timer so that when it gets triggered it stays in its state and then flickers on, stays on a while, flickers off.

                              By triggered I mean an invisible trigger actor as opposed to a trigger light switch

                              I'm sure people won't moan too much if a torch is replaced for one map..... well..... most people
                              [E.D.G]Chief

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