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  • Map Balance

    Im working on a map right now, and im trying to make it balanced so that it doesn't favor either side. I could really use some feedback from guards, hardcore ghosters, DM thieves, and everything in between on what makes a map fun, not so much on what's easy to win. I realize I can't please everybody, but I want a perspective other than my own to work off of.

    Thanks in advance,

  • #2
    You'll find that each and every one of us will have a different opinion on what is fun, although we can most likely find a few things that definately are not fun(eg. chokepoints such as the book room door in Gerome).
    Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia, n. See also Irony.

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    • #3
      A chokepoint can really kill a ghosting.
      JM

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Lurox
        A chokepoint can really kill a ghosting.
        We can get through them well enough, but it isn't fun for most people is all.


        Breakout happens to be one of my favorite maps.
        Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia, n. See also Irony.

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        • #5
          I find that maps seem to keep a good sense of balance if the Thief-spawn-area/exit & the objective locations are in nice open spaces, but the rest of the level should be fairly enclosed (corridors, passageways, etc). That way guards have the edge if they keep patrolling the level, but it's hard for them to barricade in objectives.

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          • #6
            Choke points give Guards a very big advantage against Thieves, so it's adviseable to include other ways of getting to an objective. Be careful not to make too many alternate routes so that it becomes impossible for guards to defend.

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            • #7
              I like maps with a good "story".

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              • #8
                And lotsa a vineable places!!
                "There's no problem that can't be solved with a big crate!"

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by طmega
                  I like maps with a good "story".
                  Same here

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                  • #10
                    If you need examples, DEv1 is a really good example of single-objective placement. Multiple ways in, you don't really need a key for it, and the objective even gives guards a clue as to where it is. Gerome is not.

                    Aquatone and Asylum are really good examples of multi-objective placement.(The evidence and the syrum that is.) The amount of loot in Folly is not.

                    Spider and Burger are good for spawn protection. Gerome and Nostalgia aren't that hot. (Nostalgia because of a spawn that many guards camp, and Gerome because of the many wayward visits that occur.)

                    AI placement is excellent in many of the maps, although you will find that many of the 'outside' guards are quite lacking in that department. Spider has a few very well placed outside guards.

                    AI priority is a big issue too. That determines which AI are inhabited first. In Korman, typically the first 2 guards to spawn (haven't checked new version) are in the church. In the old version of Korman, with guards rushing the rectory, this left the church often unguarded due to necessity.

                    AI skill is something that you should seriously consider. I am only aware of Captain Kneight in Gerome with such a setting, but I am sure there are others. This gives some flavor and life into your mission.

                    Also, you can set AI to attempt certain tasks, such as to be an archer, sniper, or melee-specific. The sniper is the one I don't think we have seen at all yet, but its there. Again, more flavor for your bots.

                    Personal names and skins are other things that spice up the level. Adding a female guard will always promote a interest.

                    Using th-chest properties is a big issue for me. With my crappy resolution, I can see into nearly any chest without opening it. Th-chest properties eliminates that bug and gives the thief a little edge.

                    'Gotcha' suprises aren't really that fun. Placing only a wooden spoon into a chest that takes 5 minutes to pick may get a few laughs the first time around, but will end up ticking off players.

                    The sound bug is another big thing for me. Sound propigates fairly well in TUT, and follows the pathnodes that you set. Yet it also expands in a spherical shape no matter what you do. Plan out your map to have extra space between your walls, ceilings and floors to eliminate as much of this problem as you can.

                    Ok, I think I have said enough for now. Good luck with your map!

                    Kiech
                    www.thecrackaz.com
                    Kiech

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bloody-Reaper
                      And lotsa a vineable places!!

                      Originally posted by طmega
                      I like maps with a good "story".

                      I agree with both of these. A good story in a map always makes it more interesting. Plenty of places that are hard to reach and are little known about make the map more fun. Straight-through maps that are linear are boring.

                      Also you need to have plenty of entrances and exits. Chokepoints are bad.

                      I also like lots of dousable torches or lights than can be turned off. The darker, the better.
                      Genius is a blink before a moment of insanity.
                      "Dream is Destiny"
                      Waking Life

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                      • #12
                        Oh yeah, one more. A spawn that is totally unreachable by guards. Spiders has this. Also, make sure there are several ways to exit a spawn.
                        Genius is a blink before a moment of insanity.
                        "Dream is Destiny"
                        Waking Life

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kiech Bepho
                          'Gotcha' suprises aren't really that fun. Placing only a wooden spoon into a chest that takes 5 minutes to pick may get a few laughs the first time around, but will end up ticking off players.
                          I'm sorry, I disagree with that one. I laughed my ass off at that one. As long as it's always in the same place, players will come to know it, and not bother with it.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LaughingRat
                            Originally posted by Kiech Bepho
                            'Gotcha' suprises aren't really that fun. Placing only a wooden spoon into a chest that takes 5 minutes to pick may get a few laughs the first time around, but will end up ticking off players.
                            I'm sorry, I disagree with that one. I laughed my ass off at that one. As long as it's always in the same place, players will come to know it, and not bother with it.

                            Where is this spoon yall speak of?
                            Genius is a blink before a moment of insanity.
                            "Dream is Destiny"
                            Waking Life

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                            • #15
                              Its in one of the secret maps we are beta-testing. Go look in the private forum. LR only posted it over a month ago...
                              Kiech

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