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  • brushes build with 2dshape-editor

    if i use alot of them (like for pillars, curved stairs, curved walkways, special shaped doors or windows) do they chew away performance?
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  • #2
    Depends on the amount of poly's in them...

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    • #3
      Yes! Brushes made with the 2D editor are a good way to really quickly increase your node, poly, and BSP error counts. There are things you can do to minimise these problems:

      Merge polys

      A secondary and sometimes quicker way of doing a similar thing is to de-intersect your brush against a flat surface, but it will pick up the texture info from that surface, you won't be able to unmerge the polys later if you want to (I've never needed to though), and it won't always result in a one poly surface.

      Also, when building with the 2D editor, keep in mind your poly / node counts. Use semisolids where appropriate, and keep the number of edges and vertices in your 2D editor as minimal as possible.

      For simple bevels on primitive shapes, brush clipping is a much cleaner option.

      Also, if you need an oddly shaped sheet you can export a square, one poly sheet primitive to .t3d, then open the file in notepad and (if you figure out the coordinates) add extra vertices. I've used this for water sheets on oddly shaped pools before.

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      • #4
        umm i got pillars, some large to small u-formed walkways with railings, several simple doors, some freaky spidershaped windows, some curved stairsets and some curved balconys so far...i didnt want to create just a bunch of squares and cubes and used arches and round stuff alot...and it runs good and with none of that errors

        ....erm i think ops: ...

        BSP errors are when u get those holes to nowhere, right? Dunno what the other do ....but if Ued doesnt chrash when creating a 2dshape things seem to be ok, do they?
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        • #5
          Good good, you're obviously not pushing it too far for the editor and relative to your system specs

          BSP errors can be purely visual or collision rlated. Visual ones will result in ugly visual repititions withing a certain area, collision ones will either be holes where there are surfaces, or invisible pieces of geometry you can't move through.

          If you type "stat fps" into the console, you'll get some useful stats including your node and poly counts. Typically for UT, poly counts should be around 300 (400 prefereble max), and node count roughly double that, otherwise it will chug on UT 436 spec systems.

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          • #6


            in some areas it reaches 700 polys and 1500 nodes, and the 400/800 limit is reached often too...

            but i didnt implement zones so far (but on the other hand objects, ai and (proper) lighting too)
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            • #7
              Your map is going to kill low end systems.

              Zoning will only alter occlusion time (The time it takes to decide what to render and what to leave out), it won't lower node or poly counts.

              Lighting, meshes, and AI will decrease performance further.

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              • #8
                BTW, please don't be discouraged. My favorite schtick for a while was making maps that used lots of curves with wide open space, and hence killed low end systems. They didn't get played much, which is rather unsurprising. It took me about 5 maps before I could make anything with even remotely satisfactory lighting, texturing and performance, and even my last map had high occlusion times because of disproportionate restraint and ambition.

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                • #9
                  ah well PhaeThorn brought up the patience to test it and he said he didnt have any performance problems with it....(he even liked it ) so i think theres hope...
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nachimir
                    Lighting, meshes, and AI will decrease performance further.
                    My contribution (not necessarily 100% accurate, it's just my understanding):


                    Lots of AI will cause generally slow performance over the entire level, since the player has to be kept updated about their current whereabouts and actions. Unless you feel they significantly boost the atmosphere, keep non-guard AI (noblemen, servants, etc) to a minimum.


                    My understanding of meshes is limited, although in situations when they won't be encountered collision-wise, they are preferable to BSP geometry due to the fact that more polys/detail can be displayed with less strain on the the system.


                    Lighting-lag is something that I first discovered when a particular room of my map gave hideous lag when the lights were switched on, but ran perfectly smooth when they were turned off. There were only 4 lights in the room, and so I found this especially strange, since I had other rooms with 16+ lights, but no lag. I discovered the main factor leading to it was:

                    -The lights radii overlapped considerably, and so some parts of the room were being lit by all 4 lights. & because these lights were dynamic, information was being stored about all the different light conditions caused by different combinations of lights that could be switched on/off. I reduced the light radii so that no part of the room was lit by more than 2 lights, and voila...no more lag!

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                    • #11
                      hmmm what about one ambient light with huge radius on top of a level - to create the impression of, lets say a moon-bright night? With additional lights at the ground (from laterns and such) would that be lag-o-rama then?
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Schleicher
                        hmmm what about one ambient light with huge radius on top of a level - to create the impression of, lets say a moon-bright night? With additional lights at the ground (from laterns and such) would that be lag-o-rama then?
                        That wouldn't work right... Lightning over those distances... suck.
                        If you want it to be bright outside, make it a zone and change the zonelight for it.

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                        • #13
                          i did the "huge-light-outside" on all my UT-Maps and it worked fine...are there differences how the light is handled in the TUT- and UT-Editors?
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Schleicher
                            i did the "huge-light-outside" on all my UT-Maps and it worked fine...are there differences how the light is handled in the TUT- and UT-Editors?
                            The Shadow O'meter doesn't like it.

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                            • #15
                              Having one bright light for moon is fine, as long as you set it up and position it correctly: if it's above the middle of your map, the shadows will head out in different directions relative to the light. Moon or sun shadows should be linear due to the theoretical distances involved.

                              I kludged moonlight a bit messily in TH-Breandor, and Ulukai used similar but more refined setups in Grange and Folly.

                              Light type non-incidence is an important property, it means the light won't fall off toward the edges: if this isn't set, then as Master-Builder said it will screw up lightgem readings.

                              Look at maps in the editor if there's something you like about them, then try to work out how the mapper did what they did.

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