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  • Alternative to Invisible Collision Hulls...?

    I think I've found a good alternative to using ICH's and BlockAll's. So far, with the testing I've done, it seems that invisible, stationary movers are an excellent solution to the problem of complex shapes for actor blocking and collision.

    Since movers don't occlude you don't get the dissapearing actor problem. Also, movers have per-poly collision, which makes them much more intuitive to map with than the collision height/radius of a BlockAll.

    Now, I've only tested this on my home network with a dedicated server, but it seems to work as well as any other method available.

  • #2
    but doesnt per-poly collision take away some performance?
    My leet Thievery Map
    My leet UT3 Map
    My leet AS Map

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    • #3
      When you say invisible collision hull, do you refer only to the collision cylinder of actors, or are you also including the the ICH's created with the builder brush?
      Give some taffer fire, and you'll keep him warm for the night with one less reason to cause trouble for the master.
      Set a taffer on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life, and have no need to bother the master.

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      • #4
        I'm refering to both the actor collision and brush collision.

        As for performance, I'm not sure what the effect would be. Per-poly collision on a mover is only active for when an actor is in proximity, and then it uses convex-hull planar collision for detection, which is similar to BSP collision. I'm am pretty sure that you would need a whole hell of a lot of movers to affect the collision detect system. I'll need to make a stress-test map to compare it analytically. The benefits of having a single mesh for complex collisions over multiple BlockAll's would far outweigh the performance loss in my opinion.

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        • #5
          But if I recall correctly...

          ...don't objects behind movers actually disappear in ONLINE games?


          Think about Asylum vents and the doctor's room.
          Ah, to be a hero. Keeping such company...

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          • #6
            That could be caused by zone portals at the end of the vents though.
            Immortius' Forge

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            • #7
              Originally posted by DeepQantas
              But if I recall correctly...

              ...don't objects behind movers actually disappear in ONLINE games?


              Think about Asylum vents and the doctor's room.
              Would this actually be a problem, though? If it's going to be perminently preventing you from getting past, does it even matter what's on the other side?
              It's not my fault everything you like is terrible.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by DeepQantas
                .... don't objects behind movers actually disappear in ONLINE games?

                Think about Asylum vents and the doctor's room.
                Not sure what you mean- I can see everything (including the doc moving around) as I approach the closed vent, and I can see tell if a guard is in the vent when closed from inside the docs room. If you cannot, maybe its an issue with the video card? Or do you refer to soemthing else?
                Give some taffer fire, and you'll keep him warm for the night with one less reason to cause trouble for the master.
                Set a taffer on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life, and have no need to bother the master.

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                • #9
                  I tested this method with a dedicated server and while objects directly behind a thin pillar would vanish, the objects behind translucent and invisible movers didn't dissapear.

                  Where this method would be best used is in areas like the graveyard in Theatre or the dining-room windows in Grange, where one mover could replace 8 or so BlockAll's. It's also useful for making an approximation of a complex decorative object where the built-in vertical cylinder collision object wouldn't be appropriate, such as pipes that are laying on their side, or something like a pole or gargoyle sicking out of a wall.

                  Also, now that I'm thinking of it, if you were to get creative and do some custom attachment code in the mover, you could stick it to a moveable object, like a crate, giving it psudo-UT2k3 static mesh collision primitives.

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                  • #10
                    Sounds good. Attached, movable brush sounds cool. Is that possible with brushes? Tried to create rising water by attaching a water zone brush to a mover. UED crashed- could not make the attache connection. Method/settings same as I used to get meshes to follow movers. I have not tried the attach mover though.

                    Still not sure why this is better then creating a invisible collison hull from the special brush. Shape can be whatever you want it. Does it being a semi-solid make the differnece? If solid is the useful proepry, why not just set the ingame hide tag to true or create an invisible solid in the first place? Been doing things like this in my map, so far no problems.
                    Give some taffer fire, and you'll keep him warm for the night with one less reason to cause trouble for the master.
                    Set a taffer on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life, and have no need to bother the master.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What about lighting being affected???
                      It's not my fault everything you like is terrible.

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                      • #12
                        lighting seems unaffected. AS mentioned though, I also have not noticed any problems with maps like Asylum either as already mentioned. Might be video card related, might be I just do not know what to look for.
                        Give some taffer fire, and you'll keep him warm for the night with one less reason to cause trouble for the master.
                        Set a taffer on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life, and have no need to bother the master.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The reason mover-based ICH's (I'll call em MICHes from now on) are better than builder-brush-based ones is that they don't cause things behind them that should be visible become invisible in a netgame. Try making a simple map with a regular brushed invisible collision hull and a MICH based one, and stick some random objects and ThCivillians behind them. Run a dedicated server on your computer with the map, then run regular thievery on the same computer and join the dedicated game (simulates network play). Observe how the objects behind a regular ICH dissapear and are invisible until you have direct line-of-sight on them, while the MICH does not have this effect. As for lighting, if you want the MICH to cast shadows, leave it as it is, but to not have shadows(for windows or glass), set the MICH's second keyframe to somewhere outside of the level, and set the brush raytrace key to 1. And don't forget, you need to use a regular UT mover, not a ThDoor, and you need to set InitialState to TriggerToggle to keep the mover from moving when something touches it.

                          ---

                          To get dynamic physics zones, you'll need to make a custom mover script, not just attach the ZoneInfo to the mover. You'll need to rewrite the Touch and Untouch sections to set the physics of any actor that touches the mover. However, there may be issues with the collision hashing in the physics code that may make this method fail, as well as that I don't know if things are considered still colliding with a mover if they are completely enveloped inside it.

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                          • #14
                            hmm i should try that...i got some trees disappearing coz of blockalls
                            My leet Thievery Map
                            My leet UT3 Map
                            My leet AS Map

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                            • #15
                              Nothing wrong with the video card. Didn't I mention the magic word: "Online" ?

                              Anyways, as immortius said, it might have something to do with the zone portal being at the same spot with the vent mover... That and possibly the low data transfer rate of the modem. Maybe UT 'optimizes' the things it shows to the player.


                              Oh, and one more thing. If you use a mover for a big window or the like, you better check if the AI can see through it even if players can.
                              Ah, to be a hero. Keeping such company...

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