Walls, Subtractions, Semisolids, and Sheets...Questions

[SiLeNt_NiGhT]

:cry:

Okay, here are a few questions I'm wondering if anyone can help with:

1) Does 'wallthickness' make any difference when building? There doesn't seem to be any difference visually between a wall made with a thickness of 16uu or 8uu ...
If I make a wall thats 8uu wide then should I change the 'thickness to 8uu as well and what effect does this have in-game if I leave this at 16uu thickness on a wall that is only 8uu wide? Could this differential cause BSP errors and such?

2) I'm noticeing that if I subtract a block from space then accidentally subtract again over that same space the overlap often causes a BSP error somewhere on my map. Is this one of the causes of these types of errors? Does thickness of walls on a subtactive brush have any bearing on BSP's resulting from this?

3) Within my map I have placed some Octogonal, giant vats of Molten metal. Ofcourse since the vats are circular or 'octogonal' I cant get the special sheet to conform to the shape. When I place a regular cube brush, shaped like an octagon in the vat, for the lava-like surface, I get major BSP problems. Since you can't cut sheets into octogons it appears I will have to change the shape of the vats. Is there any way I can retain my roughly circular vats and have sheets of molten metal/lava or no?

4) Is there a problem with having players in contact with semi-solid objects in game? So far I haven't noticed any problems but I thought I should ask. I'm trying to cut down on the number of solids in my map for rendering purposes. But many of my solids will more than likely be touched in some way by players....

[The_Dan]

Righto...

1. Thickness only applies to hollow objects: Ie. a hollow 10 X 10 X 10 cube with a wall-thickness of 2 will have a 8 X 8 X 8 cube carved out inside it.

2. Due to the above-explanation, it is unlikely that thickness has any relevance to your situation. If you have two brushes that appear to overlap try using interesect & de-intersect when creating the second brush, so that you can eliminate any overlap areas from your brush, before you add/subtract it.

3. Hmm, I've had the problem myself & I can't provide any reasonable solution to your problem. Sorry

4. Semi-solids only affect bots differently, not players. Bots basically can't "see" semi-solids & so will act as though they're not there. Therefore, they will try to walk & shoot through semi-solids, if the need arises. Or so I've been told by numerous UED guides.

Try to use semi-solids in areas where it is unlikely that bots will be involved, or in places where bots won't need to pass through (ie. corners or sides of rooms).

Suggested semi-solids: rafters, furniture at room-edges, any wall mounted decorations, etc.

Hope this helps

[BiG_D]

About #3, try to deintersect the sheet... I have had this work before.

[SiLeNt_NiGhT]

For The_Dan and Big_D;

Thanks for your help. As for #3, I've managed to redesign my vats so that a 'square' sheet will supply the molten surface and the corners will be hidden from view - and I can still preserve the container's octogonal shape. As for deintersecting, I tried to do this but found everything around the area of the vats was being changed to a 'red brush'. I'm not entirely sure how deintersecting would have removed the corners of my sheet leaving only the octogonal surface 'within' the vats. The corners continued to stickout of the octagonal walls of the vats and still show their lava-texture when I attempted what you said. Big_D, did you mean that I would have to do the deintersect before any addition or subtraction? Then which should be 'added' first - the surface lava sheet or the vat container itself? Or should I have created a finished model then intersected a red brush around it as a whole (the same way I would proceed to make a mover brush)? Then shift the entire red builder brush to its position on my map?

(I have limited knowledge in the use of some of the tools in Ued. Intersect and deintersect appear to have many potential uses, aside from building movers, of which I'm just starting to understand. I keep discovering new ways of doing things which I've found, had I known them earlier, would have saved me alot of grief, frustration, and time. And often its something that no tutorial can really prepare you for. But its all good.)

[Nachimir]

About #3, try to deintersect the sheet... I have had this work before.

ARG!

Doing that, you're more likely to get vertices all over the place (literally) than an octagonal sheet brush. There are two ways around the problem:

Make an octagonal sheet with the 2D editor, then merge polys. The only problem is that sometimes merge polys is uncooperative, even if you do align the faces first.

The other solution is to make another octagonal brush, such that the top face is where you want your zone portal, the radius makes sure that the side faces are halfway into the sides of the vat, and the bottom face is also below the floor of the vat.

Then make your portal with the 3D brush, and hey presto, you can only see the top face, and don't have to merge any polys.

[LegalAssassin]

You could do that octagonal sheet in the 2d shape editor and then move the vertices perfect later, but as you're new to UED I'dn't recommend it.

The 3rd option is to make a sheet as usual, but with a special texture. Masked apart from the octagonal water shape. Though that's just unnecesseary

[BiG_D]

I should've explained better.
1. Somewhere away from the rest of your map, subtract the shape you would like your sheet to be.
2. Deintersect with that.

Its a hit or miss affair, sometimes it works perfect, otherwise I doesn't work at all.

[The_Dan]

You could do that octagonal sheet in the 2d shape editor and then move the vertices perfect later, but as you're new to UED I'dn't recommend it.

Using the 2D shape editor, now theres an idea!

[SiLeNt_NiGhT]

...I second that...hmmm,...2d editor, nice idea! Never thought of that....

Will experiment on this... Thanks Nachimir, (and everyone else!)

[LegalAssassin]

If you want it perfect (I'm a perfectionist - rarely complete a map because of this), you should use vertex editing, with the Snap Vertecies thing on. Though you'll find it an amazing headache at first, I really like it. I rarely make terrrain outside UED.

(Why did I post this???)

[SiLeNt_NiGhT]

Legal Assassin wrote:

If you want it perfect (I'm a perfectionist - rarely complete a map because of this), you should use vertex editing, with the Snap Vertecies thing on. Though you'll find it an amazing headache at first, I really like it. I rarely make terrrain outside UED.

I strive for perfection but....thats all. I'm learning as I go along with this one and for some things I've had to settle cause its beyond my abilities and I want to get this done eventually. I know there are flaws and problems with it right now but I figure when its playable I'll put it out there for testing and evaluation, and then revamp it - others input will provide much needed insight.
As for vertice editing; I'm very much interested in this. I havent experimented with this yet but will one day read up on it. I know there are times when I can't get a brush to connect or align with another and I've found that a damn vertice node is being real stubborn in letting me place some brushes wherever I want them. Sometimes I've accidentally 'selected' a vertice then can't get rid of it!! And that makes the brush jump and snap to another in such a way that gives me grief and headaches. Anyhow, legal, thanks for the heads up.

[LegalAssassin]

Have you tried unchecking Snap Verticies?

The litte button next to the gridsize setter.

Looks like a green square with a black thing sticking out of every side. Click it, and this is no prob

[SiLeNt_NiGhT]

Legal Assassin wrote;

Have you tried unchecking Snap Verticies?

The litte button next to the gridsize setter.

Looks like a green square with a black thing sticking out of every side. Click it, and this is no prob

ops:

yes, I've tried this, but doesn't the brush just snap back to an awkward spot as soon as you turn the snap button back on? If the brush is aligned perfectly when snap is off then isn't that brush technically off grid?

[BiG_D]

Are you sure you're not mistaking the 'snap to grid' button with the 'snap to verticies' button. Snap to grid should almost always be on, snap to verticies should almost always be off.

[SiLeNt_NiGhT]

it's a wonder I've gotten as far as I have....